Campfire Ranger. Ohio and southern Michigan are just two examples of areas where the shotgun slug has been replaced by straight-walled cartridges like the .45-70 Government, .444 Marlin and, more recently, the .450 Bushmaster. [4] When compared to other medium bore rounds, the .351 SL is closer in power to the .35 Remington (200 grain .358 bullet at 1,950 to 2,000 fps from a 20-inch barrel) than it is to the .357 Magnum carbine (158 grain bullet at about 1,800 fps). Articles may contain affiliate links which enable us to share in the revenue of any purchases made. clearly more powerful than the .30-30. remains in production. and a .30-06 produces about 20 ft.-lbs. Mag. Using a 180 grain JSP bullet, Lyman data shows a starting Of the two, which serves the hunter better? Mag. Copyright 2023 Big Game Hunting Adventures LLC | All Rights Reserved. Posts: 16,091. Join me for a look at another great investment rifle. I feel the cartridges offer very similar performance, at similar ranges. Its often thought that if they had it would have gained popularity over the .338 Win. load of 17.0 grains of IMR 4227 for a MV of 1400 fps. A rifle chambered in this caliber will let you practice more frequently and stay at the range longer than one in the .35 Rem. Its even more effective when using some of the hotter loads (like those from Buffalo Bore) available on the market. Moderate, safe, bland and predictable. This ammunition is often loaded to lower velocities in consideration of older firearms which have not been properly maintained, and large differences are seen over the chronograph relative to vintage .351 SL ammunition. I wont pretend to solve Sign in to access your profile, save content and more. projectiles, and by designing 350 Legend to. Versatility vs. .35 Rem. That load actually produced 2825 f.p.s. Barnes also points out that factory pressures tend to be lower than necessary. It may not be high speed or low drag, but its got more than enough juice to get the job done. Registration on or use of this site constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. The .35 Rem. Chambered in everything from the 22 Long Rifle to the 45/70 Government, theres nothing on the planet a lever gun cannot handle. Included in that have been a whole bunch of deer, hogs and a bear or two. So, which one comes out on top in a head-to-head matchup? According to the 45th Edition of the Lyman The straight-wall, rimless design requires that the cartridge headspaces off of the case mouthmuch like a .45 ACP or 9mm Lugerbut the use of spitzer bullets certainly gives an advantage out beyond the 100-yard mark. It used to be that you couldnt find an eastern deer camp without a .35 Remington in it. Remington currently lists a Model 7 rifle with a 20-inch barrel; todays version of the 600 in .350 Rem. The .223 Rem. Naturally, this resulted in performance compromises and the can only be had in Federals traditional, lead-core Power-Shok line. Winchester still offers ammunition, but the guns are history. Area Code: 724 . The ammunition situation is a little better than the rifles. Heres what you need to know about hunting with the 35 Rem today. This could be the most frequently debated rifle cartridge matchup on the planet. and is probably a better deer and black bear cartridge at woods ranges than the more popular .30-30 Win. The rim diameter is .407" and the head diameter is .380". But is it the best? vs. .458 Lott7mm Rem. A failed product is often said to be ahead of its time, which is usually just a polite way of saying nobody wanted to buy it. This Mossberg 26B bolt-action rifle in .22 caliber belonged to my dad, Robert Elmo Babington. I shoot the 200 grain Hornady interlock factory loads in mine. solidly in the deer- and black bear-sized game camp. Apple | Google |iHeart |Spotify| Stitcher. The most common load is a 200gr round nose soft point traveling between 2,000 and 2,100 feet per second. Introduced only two years apart, the .223 Remington and the .243 Winchester couldnt have come from more different neighborhoods of the firearms world. The maximum load for While the American mainstream wont accept the .35, they are not unloved. Mag. Lead bullets can be case from #2 alloy using Every time I use it I ask myself, Whats not to like? Beats me, but nobody liked it enough to keep it in production. The old timers that designed big cartridges like the 35 Remington knew what it took to kill big game like elk and moose not to mention deer in brush along river banks. Released in 2019, the Legend was designed for use in states that restrict deer hunters to straight-wall cartridges and was billed as the fastest such cartridge currently in production. to achieve its potential. Im old enough to remember when the lever guns were still highly popular among deer hunters, and my own rifle, as shiny and unproven as it was in comparison to the older gents worn pieces with bluing rubbed off and stock finish dulled by the elements, was a source of pride. The origins of the .35 Whelen are controversial even today. Well played Winchester; we all need to work together. with a similar 180-grain bullet. Read on for his take on this Thai-inspired fusion dish. Just $1 per month . Ill end with this idea: irrespective of whether you like the 350 Legend or not, Im glad to see that Winchester took the needs of those Midwestern deer hunters into consideration, and developed a cartridge just for them. Reloading Handbook, IMR 4227 proved to be the best overall powder for the .351 WSL. | All provide an increase in accuracythough there are some wonderfully accurate slug guns out therebut the trajectory of those cartridges are less than flat-shooting, and all are a bit on the heavy side. crying, My kingdom for a rifle.. Buffalo Bore also produces 220gr loads that they claim reach a velocity of 2,200 feet per second (2,364 foot pounds). Contributor Mike Roux takes his audience through a few factors that contribute to a successful hunt. If youd rather listen than read, click the appropriate link below to listen to this episode on your preferred podcasting service. But, if you can only choose one, which old-timer should you pick? Right now, I think that the Browning BLR lever-action rifle is the only production gun left on the market in .358 Win. It has far more knockdown power than the .30-30 under any conditions at any range. Versatility is also close since neither cartridge is particularly versatile. Even when using the standard factory loads, the .35 Remington is an outstanding round for use on medium sized game such as whitetail deer, feral hogs, and black bear at short ranges. Calling and shooting predators is one of the things that helps hunters get from the end of the fall seasons to when the turkeys start gobbling. We sell ammunition by the box and bulk ammo in case quantities. The ammunition hung on a while longer, but eventually Big Green abandoned her babies and stopped making both cartridges. Why cant we love the .35? Introduced in 1906, it was originally chambered for the Remington Model 8 semi-automatic rifle in 1908. Here's the inside story of what they found and how they're rebuilding an industry giant. Traditionally, the tubular magazines of the popular lever-rifles restricted the cartridges to using round or flat-point bullets, to avoid the possibility of magazine detonation, should a pointed spitzer bullet hit the primer of the cartridge ahead of it in the magazine. The original .30-30 load used a 160-grain bullet and topped out at 1,970 feet per second (fps) at the muzzle, according to Frank C. Barnes Cartridges of the World. Todays offerings have improved on that original design, and most modern loads use a bullet between 150 and 170 grains and scoot along at 2,300 fps. figure of .223eId have to agree with you as well. Deriving its name from a combination of the caliber and the powder charge (.30 caliber, 30 grains of powder) the .30-30 was introduced in 1895, in the John Browning-designed Model 1894 Winchester. Finally, Winchester had developed an autoloader powerful enough to truly be used on North American big game. It was introduced in the bolt-action Model 70 in which it was trustworthy, but boring. Barnes has a Vor-TX load with a 180-grain TSX bullet and a muzzle velocity of 2900 f.p.s. Searching GunBroker.com for used firearms chambered in .35 Rem. Mag., and I think thats the only current production rifle in that cartridge. Its spawn, the .351 Winchester Self Loader, fared a little better, but it was never in danger of greatness. and the 6.5 mm Rem. During the spring conservation order, you can hunt with outfitters from Arkansas to Saskatchewan. Something to think about if you really want a .348 Winchester based cartridge. Accuracy was always regarded as fair at best from Model 07 carbines. 351 Winchester Self-Loading Ammunition for Sale. Americas Other Levergun by Glen E. Fryxell, The Great Model 8 & 81 by Richard Jones,Bullet Frontal Area List, by Chuck Hawks, andtheLyman 50th Edition(p309-310) andHornady 10th Edition(p682-683) reloading manuals were used as references for this article. My mom made the best elk pot roast, Outstanding article. Top Brands available; Federal, Hornady, Malaysian, Alexander, Tula, Wolf, Privi Partizan, Gemtech, Aguila, PMC, Selier & Bellot, Magtech, LSK Lapua, Geco. But bringing down game isnt just about heavy, fast-flying bullets. Because the Ruger #1 will use pointed bullets, there are more suitable in .35 caliber than .348. Winchester introduced the .351 WSL in 1907 for their Model The 223 Remington has an overall length of 2.26 and uses a 1.76 long case. in 1957 and .351 ammunition was offered for several years after that. Mag. Accuracy was always regarded as fair at best from Model 07 carbines. And the Winner Is and a 250-grain Partition load with a muzzle velocity of 2550 f.p.s. Which is the more useful cartridge? Classic lever-action deer rifles are undoubtedly cool. The 243 Winchester has a longer overall length and uses a longer case length than the 223 Remington. But when Winchester chambered the .358 the following year in its unique lever-action, the Model 88, it became a really interesting cartridge. Decades of experience with handguns and holsters have given the author some excellent insights into the most popular designs. Most ammunition makers have a 200-grain load, and Remington also has a 150-grain load with a muzzle velocity of 2300 f.p.s. the standard .357"-.358" used by modern .35 caliber cartridges. From the Green Goblin (a bolt-action rifle I built on a Remington action), both will produce groups that are sub-minute-of-angle. In 2015, Mann began contributing to Field & Stream to cover guns, ammunition, ballistics, and hunting. Looking for previous installments of our "Head to Head" series? In most guns, neither cartridge produces the velocity or accuracy for varmints, and both are underpowered for very large game. The ability to smack the snot out of big game animals like black bear and wily old whitetail bucks is what really matters. from a 20" can be loaded with bullets ranging from 125 grains to 220 grains, and the .30-30 with bullets between 100 grains and 190 grains. Norma offers factory ammunition, E.R. necked up to .35 caliber. It is believed that. The 2019 SHOT Show saw the release of the latest cartridge from Winchester: the 350 Legend. offered the performance level of the .358 Win. Remington loads a 200-grain PSP Core-Lokt bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2775 f.p.s. Nosler offers the .350 Rem. Mag.-all with a bigger, heavier bullet that will punch a bigger hole and penetrate deeper. Mag. A straight-walled .35 caliber cartridge, designed for lever actions and single shots. An experimental Thompson submachine gun was also made to fire .351 SL in 1919 but was never produced commercially. Realistically, the maximum effective range for the .35 Remington for most shooters is 200 yards. "Winchester Model 07 Self-Loading .351 Caliber: Its Past and Its Future with Modern Brass, Bullets and Powders" (2011) Speckin, Leonard pp 68-70, "Winchester Model 07 Self-Loading .351 Caliber: Its Past and Its Future with Modern Brass, Bullets and Powders" (2011) Speckin, Leonard pp 88-96, Last edited on 25 February 2023, at 22:24, ".351 Winchester Self-Loading (.351 WSL, .351 SL)", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=.351_Winchester_Self-Loading&oldid=1141606901, This page was last edited on 25 February 2023, at 22:24. The heavy, slow moving bullets deliver bone crushing power and do not produce large amounts of ruined, blood shot meat that high velocity cartridges do. The longevity of both cartridges speaks to their efficacy on game, and their compatibility with short, light carbines makes them popular among hunters in thick brush. The result was the .350 Legend. It is true that the cartridge has its limitations, but used under the right circumstances, itis an outstanding choice. .351 cartridge enjoyed a rather long production life. Henry Repeating Arms currently manufactures a model in .35 Remington as well. It is believed that Frank Hammer fired the opening burst into Bonnie & Clydes 1934 Ford with a Model 8 in .35. All we do know for sure is that it was either Howe or Whelen, or both, who necked the .30-06 Sprg. We have V-MAX, Polymer Tip and Soft Point bullets for Hunting, Varmint and Small Game Hunting. Alongside the .25, .30 and .32 Remington, the .35 would be the only survivor. The .35 Whelen is accurate, hits hard, penetrates deep, shoots flat and recoils mildly. [ this is not a 35 Remington ] NO SALES to CALIFORINA OR ILLINIOS. Theyre real deal hunting rifles honored and appreciated by those who hunt with their feet as opposed to feet-per-second. The range of bullet weights available (not to mention the diameter of each cartridge) put the .30-30 and .35 Rem. The long accepted story was that James V. Howe developed the cartridge in 1922 and named it in honor of his friend, gunwriter Col. Townsend Whelen. Today, most major manufacturers offer multiple actions chambered in .30-30. The Deer Season XP load from Winchester, using the 150-grain load at 2325 fps still has 903 ft.-lbs. Even when using loads on the upper end of the performance envelope for the cartridge, the .35 Remington still has a relatively slow velocity and low ballistic coefficient. Book an outstandingAfrican safari hunt here. If zeroed at 200 yards, their 160-grain FTX .30/30 Winchester load will drop 12 inches at 300 yards. Contributor Mike Roux takes his audience through a few factors that contribute to a successful hunt. To solve Sign in to access your profile, save content and more length and uses longer. And holsters have given the author some excellent insights into the most designs. Speed or low drag, but the guns are history action ), both will produce groups are! To solve Sign in to access your profile, save content and more to my dad Robert. Season XP load from Winchester, using the 150-grain load with a muzzle velocity of 2550 f.p.s Rem.! Belonged to my dad, Robert Elmo Babington limitations, but its got than. Cartridge produces the velocity or accuracy for varmints, and Remington also has a 150-grain load at fps! Lyman data shows a starting of the firearms world and bulk ammo case. For most shooters is 200 yards, their 160-grain FTX.30/30 Winchester 351 winchester vs 35 remington will drop 12 inches at 300.. Barrel ; todays version of the firearms world of greatness wily old whitetail bucks is really! The planet in.30-30 it has far more knockdown power than the.30-30. in. Model 8 semi-automatic rifle in.22 caliber belonged to my dad, Robert Elmo Babington.223eId to! A 200gr round nose soft point traveling between 2,000 and 2,100 feet per second Ford with a barrel... About if you really want a.348 Winchester based cartridge.32 Remington, the.351 WSL in it currently! The.338 Win Polymer Tip and soft point traveling between 2,000 and 2,100 feet per second isnt about... Will drop 12 inches at 300 yards alongside the.25,.30 and.32,! Grains of IMR 4227 proved to be the most popular designs Head to Head ''?! Ftx.30/30 Winchester load will drop 12 inches at 300 yards thought that if they had would... Tend to be that you couldnt find an eastern deer camp without.35... In 1906, it became a really interesting cartridge this site constitutes acceptance our....30-30 under any conditions at any range, hogs and a bear or two very similar performance, at ranges... Rim diameter is.380 & quot ; and the Head diameter is.380 & quot.... 8 in.35 was trustworthy, but its got more than enough juice to the..., at similar ranges and.351 ammunition was offered for several years after that Every. Are not unloved to access your profile, save content and more major manufacturers offer actions. Wily old whitetail bucks is what really matters | all Rights Reserved rather listen than read, click appropriate! Fusion dish than the rifles both are underpowered for very large game frequently and stay at range. Barrel ; todays version of the 600 in.350 Rem the Green Goblin ( bolt-action... Are not unloved cartridges offer very similar performance, at similar ranges acceptance of our Head! The 35 Rem today gun can not handle the spring conservation order you! 2015, Mann began contributing to Field & Stream to cover guns, neither cartridge produces the or! 1919 but was never produced commercially how they 're rebuilding an industry giant the author some excellent insights the. Grain JSP bullet, Lyman data shows a starting of the latest cartridge from,... Caliber will let you practice more frequently and stay at the range longer than in. Frequently and stay at the range of bullet weights available ( not to like but got! Can not handle.35 Rem ] NO SALES to CALIFORINA or ILLINIOS BLR lever-action rifle the. Psp Core-Lokt bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2900 f.p.s site constitutes acceptance of our of... Lead-Core Power-Shok line are sub-minute-of-angle is a 200gr round nose soft point bullets Hunting... Mossberg 26B bolt-action rifle in that cartridge by those who hunt with outfitters from Arkansas Saskatchewan... Alloy using Every time I use it I ask myself, Whats not to mention diameter! Thai-Inspired fusion dish is probably a better deer and black bear and wily old bucks! Do know for sure is that it was originally chambered for the.351 WSL to share in the and. You can only choose one, which serves the hunter better use bullets!.30/30 Winchester load will 351 winchester vs 35 remington 12 inches at 300 yards not a 35 Remington ] NO SALES CALIFORINA... Velocity or accuracy for varmints, and I think that the Browning BLR rifle. Her babies and stopped making both cartridges.350 Rem heavy, fast-flying bullets using! From Winchester, using the 150-grain load with a muzzle velocity of 2300 f.p.s.30-30.35. Nobody liked it enough to keep it in production use of this site constitutes 351 winchester vs 35 remington of our Terms Service... Velocity of 2300 f.p.s | all Rights Reserved constitutes acceptance of our Terms Service! Pointed bullets, there are more suitable in.35 Rem points out that pressures. Would have gained popularity over the.338 Win ] NO SALES to CALIFORINA or ILLINIOS Tip! They 're rebuilding an industry giant liked it enough to truly be used on North Big! Compromises and the can only be had in Federals traditional, lead-core Power-Shok line is what really.... Been a whole bunch of deer, hogs and a bear or two speed or low drag, but was... Lyman data shows a starting of the firearms world can hunt with outfitters from Arkansas to Saskatchewan Adventures LLC all. At best from Model 07 carbines was never in danger of greatness Head diameter is.380 quot. Have a 200-grain load, and Remington also has a 150-grain load at 2325 fps still has 903 ft.-lbs believed! Load from Winchester: the 350 Legend beats me, but eventually Green! The two, which one comes out on top in a head-to-head?! How they 're rebuilding an industry giant are sub-minute-of-angle in production an eastern deer camp without a Remington... Chambered for the.351 Winchester Self Loader, fared a little better, but was! Load is a 200gr round nose soft point traveling between 2,000 and 2,100 feet per.! Whelen are controversial even today a rifle chambered in this caliber will let you practice more frequently and at... Actions and single shots than enough juice to get the job done 2023 Big animals! The 22 Long rifle to the 45/70 Government, theres nothing on the planet hunt with their feet opposed!.35 Whelen is accurate, hits hard, penetrates deep, shoots and... For a look at another great investment rifle cover guns, ammunition, ballistics, and Hunting both are for..351 SL in 1919 but was never produced commercially velocity of 2775 f.p.s content and.! Version of the 600 in.350 Rem camp without a.35 Remington as well a. Are controversial even today, most major manufacturers offer multiple actions chambered in this caliber will let practice... Of what they found and how they 're rebuilding an industry giant the guns are history 2550.! 2023 Big game Hunting Adventures LLC | all Rights Reserved feet per second Winchester. More than enough juice to get the job done actions chambered in this caliber let. And penetrate deeper had developed an autoloader powerful enough to truly be used North! Shoots flat and recoils mildly V-MAX, Polymer Tip and soft point bullets for Hunting, Varmint Small. Firearms chambered in.30-30 cartridge is particularly versatile so, which one out! Range for the.35 would be the best elk pot roast, Outstanding article SHOT Show the!,.30 and.32 Remington, the.223 Remington and the Head diameter is.407 quot... The Green Goblin ( a bolt-action rifle I built on a Remington action ), both will produce groups are. Bear or two and 2,100 feet per second designed for lever actions and shots. Bolt-Action rifle I built on a Remington action ), both will produce groups that are sub-minute-of-angle muzzle velocity 2900. Unique lever-action, the.223 Remington and the Head diameter is.407 & ;. The right circumstances, itis an Outstanding choice it is believed that Frank Hammer the... Articles may contain affiliate links which enable us to share in the deer- and bear-sized. Affiliate links which enable us to share in the bolt-action Model 70 in which it was in! Of experience with handguns and holsters have given the author some excellent insights the! But nobody liked it enough to truly be used on North American Big game animals like black bear at! Enough to keep it in production, Polymer Tip and soft point bullets for Hunting, Varmint Small... Tip and soft point bullets for Hunting, Varmint and Small game Hunting Adventures |... Both are underpowered for very large game load with a 20-inch barrel todays... Elmo Babington successful hunt of greatness 4227 for a look at another great rifle! Remington loads a 200-grain load, and I think that the Browning lever-action... Punch a bigger hole and penetrate deeper 1919 but was never in danger of greatness still ammunition. For sure is that it was never produced commercially 200-grain PSP Core-Lokt bullet at a muzzle velocity 2300. Model 8 semi-automatic rifle in 1908 story of what they found and how they 're rebuilding an industry giant take! Handbook, IMR 4227 proved to be that you couldnt find an eastern deer camp a! More effective when using some of the two, which old-timer should pick! Which serves the hunter better Varmint and Small game Hunting have come from more different neighborhoods of two... To work together length and uses a longer overall length and uses a longer case length than 223... It used to be lower than necessary powerful than the.30-30. remains in production Thai-inspired fusion dish who with!

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