@ Law Prof: Little nobodies dont stand a chance. I guess what Im saying is that when a pastor is revealed as an abuser, that doesnt necessarily invalidate everything his church has done. I did. @ Davis and Natasha: My problem with all of this is that I am no fan of or apologist for mega churches or mega stars of any stripe. The only thing you can blame other people for is making his deception known. After all, women are not little children who have to run to daddy for every little bump up. We have not seen courageous leadership. @ Thersites: Redemption. Her courage will be an inspiration many others. Ever thought of switching to WordPress? Does this have any bearing on whether or not Bill Hybels was a sociopath, an abuser, a phony, a hypocrite, a philanderer? He told me he had taken Ambien. It often makes for very lively and interesting discussions. The fact that people post here and not just give up on the church and Christainty gives me great comfort the NT clearly warns of false profits amoung the brethern and clearly teaches we should have qualified leaders. @ dee: Brad, not all of us read or study the scriptures with the same filter. This is VERY common. The Devil is destroying yet another church. There is ignorance going on but you may be pointing in the wrong direction. How many women would even dare come forward after being called liars, drunks and suicidal? It was part of his long time abuse of her. Now, if we mean that believers at Willow Creek (or outside of it) will grapple with Mr Hybels and the Elders sins in these matters as they themselves become more sanctified, I can see that perspective. Peter was upset. For someone who set himself up as a leader of leaders, Hybels made a critical leadership mistake here. Many self/proclaimed Christians dont. Fear fear of losing jobs, celebrity and the 501c3. We know about this link. Wild!!! * Now, it all falls into place: Wow, Im not the only person this happened to. This was real. This was wrong.. So Im now wondering. All it would take, with most women is a subtle suggestion that You did come to my hotel room voluntarily or I didnt force you to stay and have a glass of wine to manipulate her into blaming herself for any inappropriate activity and keep her mouth shut. She uses grooming quite cleverly. I also think if its true, it minimizes his and his wifes ability to legitimately point the finger at others, and the impact of their words, and that is very unfortunate. The gospel includes that in spite of what happened God is willing to forgive and restore the sinner in relationship to God. I see this is a crucial issue, and I appreciate that Dee has put it forward for consideration in abuse survivor communities. (I do think that helped me collect the red flags sooner, though). I guess you are not aware of the president for whom Hybels was a spiritual advisor. Read Paul on Mars hill. Im not saying any of that is right. ), hum, hum, hum but tomorrow be 501(c)3 rain, still Ill follow the Son, Spy That is common respect for other people. Hybels et al have it backwards. It is hard enough fighting rampant sex abuse in churches. Taught many lies in the churches even to the point where we unknowingly give homage to the devil. Here are some points of summary that I wrote about why this matters: From some of the background reading on this issue, it is clear that digital documents, audio, and video can constitute relevant evidence in any of these legal actions. Sounds like he at the time did some things that outside of context would be perceived as unwise with co-workers. There are plenty of decent good men/women preaching to people week after week who dont take ever advantage of being admired and believed. They are pits of mass deception and subterfuge. if one has enough of those there seems to be a scale to weigh behaviors against. What shes done more than anything is reveal that Willow Creek had/has a culture and work environment that is not guided or governed by wise, common-sense policies or practices for accountabilityespecially when it came to male-female relationships. But at church with people you see week after week? You were easily manipulated by an evil expert (especially with children). You summed up my whole opinion of this mess. So what leadership position are you aspiring to; are you in competition with your own husband (me)? Is it the lack of family having your back? Id just as soon do away with megas altogether, and I doubt anybody would even try either, but it might be better than placing the popularity of a church on a single person. The whole manipulation tactic is a brain gamer based upon the receivers cognitive dissonance. Davids own relationship with God was apparently restored, David continued to worship the God of Israel-to his death as far as I know. I also think if its true, it minimizes his and his wifes ability to legitimately point the finger at others, and the impact of their words, and that is very unfortunate. Bill was born on March 1, 1948 to Dr. Joseph and Evelyn LaBarre. who originally wrote plastic jesus - is lynne hybels still married to bill - is lynne hybels still married to bill My professional organization will not do that In fact, we are specifically instructed how to do email when legally sensitive information is invloved. there was no hostile work environment attached. And could it easily be construed as creating complicity by whoever carried out that demand? The term for this is Simul Justus et Peccator. That is me, that is you and that is everyone else. Im thinking of 2 comments right now from over a year ago in which you reposted comments you attempted to post elsewhere. If it is seeing a good friend after a long time, a family member, etc, understandable. I go even further with it, Jack. Agreed that Ms. Walles claims arent relevant to the question of Mr. Hybels actions, although they do speak to a toxic, boundary-less culture where men were apparently not held to high standards and did not have clear guidelines that held them accountable. I knew all this stuff from my secular org development career but did not transfer it to the church setting right way. And it is *by design*! This is Uncharted Territory for them. I know, Ive been there. Bill Hybels has stepped down from Chicago-area megachurch Willow Creek six months ahead of his planned retirement, in the wake of allegations of misconduct . They were powerful, influentual, respected leaders. And jet setting. After all that Nancy Ortberg said, I would hate for her husband to have behaved like that, even if it isnt as bad as what Bill Hybels has done. The couple was hitched in 1974. Near the end of this article, Dee posted this question for Willow Creek Church: Is it possible that Bill Hybels encouraged the leadership of women in order to increase his own access to women who admired him within the confines of church business, giving him plausible deniability? WITCHES! Or perhaps some women get hugged one way or the other disproportionately for one reason or the other and therefore complain or not about hugging-ness. Having been a nurse, I told him I found it rather odd that he was focusing on one of the more rare side effects, and that he brought it up to me at all. He told me to sit down and put my feet up. Hybels chief goal seems to have been to get his sexual needs met without negotiation. Nope. Im not convinced that his view of hell can be called heresy. They collected funds for widows and orphans, and then distributed those funds as promised. This is part of the problem that the #metoo movement does not address. What happened to people? Now its over. The statement was wrong in every way and since there is a great possibility that the group is very concerned and just seeking truth. Ephesians 4:2 Hybels was an early god of the mega how to manual. Some sources say that they dated for five years, broke up, got engaged then broke their engagement and later got back together and finally got married. She also questioned her own judgment in whether he was actually being inappropriate. It can be such a power deal included in lots of other power moves by the evil ones well regarded in church. Theres theory, and then practise. Ive been thinking along similar lines for a few days, and its relevance to the question, How could this happen in whats been consider a pioneering egalitarian church?. Nancy Ortberg remains affiliated as a board member and husband John Ortberg a prolific speaker, author and leader continues to return to be a guest speaker at Willow Creek for several years after they left Willow Creek? But it is also more than ethics here. In your view, discussing Hybels behavior is worse than his behavior. As for the hug thing, & why didnt Nancy Ortberg say somethingwell, for a year or two now, my Christian neighbour, who Ive been friends with him & his wife for about 25 years, has been giving me lingering hugs, which end up with his hands resting on my lower back as often as he can when he drops into my house, hes made a few inappropriate comments about my breasts (they are a standing joke amongst me & my friends as Im a buxom lass), often tries to rub my shoulders as he knows I have shoulder issues& youre the first people Ive told. Read the Bible Dee. This is ridiculous! The lead elder talks about a duty to protect the church and cites Acts 20:28 which allows her to indirectly call the betrayed wolves and enemies of the church. 4 unwanted extended hugs (thats including Nancy Ortbergs latest revelation). too much bowing down to the leaders, too much caliber, too much influence, too much power. I say we are. Ok, except that no one I know has heard of Willow Creek or Bill Hybels. Was Hybels intimating that The Ambien made me do it?. Bill was asked about his special arrangement with I.T., where his emails are permanently deleted on a frequent and regular basis. Later I did not know how or who to talk to and began to second-guess and doubt myself as to its significance; that is, until years later when I began to hear stories of other similar encounters. Jodi may get extra points for a time for her clever rant but if this thing goes south she will be the first to go. And it all comes cloaked in the name of the Christianity and the Church. So both Nancy Ortberg and her husband wonderful teaching pastors stayed on the staff later resigned to pastor in California. Sounds like at least some of the accusers would like to see justice for sure, but also redemption for even Hybels. Open Discussion Page. I also took 3 years of Biblical Hebrew and 4.5 years of Koine Greek thats NT greek. Publicado en 88000 . That statement should never have been sent out and hasnt been corrected to this day! If at the end of this tragedy, Willow Creek gets that they will flow like a river rather than a creek. He lied when he told the Monday night Family Meeting that the unhappy marriage comment in the Tribune was just the result of a check-in.. Last month, the Chicago Tribune published claims that women made against Hybels spanning decades. And theres nothing fundamentally wrong with that in the proper context. Where is the scribe? Bill Hybels and his wife, Lynne, tell about Willow Creek's beginnings, its struggles, the philosophy behind its success, and the strategies that have made it a model for church growth. And it still doesnt negate what Bill Hybels did, even if it were to be true. In light of the testimonies of additional women who suffered his unwanted attentions, the only remaining question is how many women were victimized and how long has this been going on. Was Hybels intimating that The Ambien made me do it? Read this account posted by Vonda Dyer. Same church where Hybels daughter worked (PR for Bell) and met her husband who was Minister of Music, now in charge of music for Willow Creek. He could claim she was taking advantage of him (poor man) because she knew that after taking Ambien he might not be possessed of his full faculties for the rest of the night. They were taking Jesus away to be put in trial. He may or may not have been directly abusing his own wife, but he surely was abusing the women in his church who he targeted. Willow Creek is its own worst enemy not Satan. Lynne Hybels was born on 21st November 1951. And dont forget: An honest person has nothing to hide and everything to gain and will save things because he is safe in the knowledge that evidence will only prove his innocence. Its the evil person who masquerades as a good person. Just wondering if theres a way to make it easier to keep up. If the situation at the top remains insular, one doesnt find out what friendly financial terms are struck, and before you know it, the heat dies down and the PayPal accounts go live for those not of retirement age, and the book deals resume for them as well as the retirees. Exactly. Tsk.) come out of the woodwork. He told me to sit down and put my feet up. What we have a problem with is a man who by his own admission did a lot of untoward things, things that are the very definition of a sexual groomer, and did so behind the scenes while maintaining the aura of one who should be emulated. Sexual predation is not based on *wanting to have sex. So sad. Really? This is a well worn story, insert Pastor name here, insert church name here. We can all learn from this and make sure to teach your kids. Incidentally, I am sure there are many nuances to the science, and I make no claim to be an expert. Hybels either is, or is not, rightly accused. What if the Elders had sent Hybels home on a sabbatical while they allowed for a truly independent investigation 5 years ago? Or been involved with the thought reform in a social justice Warrior Church. The answer is quite simple. Posted travelpro skywalk vs maxlite. So, what led to the divorce? It would seem somewhat of a legal issue to go around wiping documents and videos, no? Then I started questioning that after quite a few! This one is so true. I would love TWW to enable me to get email notification of new posts and new comments on a thread I have commented on. This will sound horrible to some but I never understood the overall hug culture. Both are the same in outcome). However, for people like those profiled on this site who have fallen short in protecting those under their charge (say, by covering ups their own misdeeds and/or crimes or those of others) to reemerge in a place where they again wish to wield spiritual authority (by starting another ministry (sic) in which they assume spiritual leadership or selling books advising sheep on spiritual matters seeking funding from said sheep in each case) is massively troubling. Ok whats wrong with this picture?? * Scripture does not discuss it that way. Has anyone complained about inappropriate behavior from John Ortberg? By your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned Jesus Matthew 12:37. Try finding a church now that sings traditional hymns or doesnt use projectors and worship teams. People handle things. Lets pretend we know what we are doing., When someone shows you who they are believe them; the first time. Maya Angelou. Who though renowned for his wisdom, had a strong of Rich Kid with Famous Father syndrome. These are the things that The Church has to wake up to. Its a thing now. But, I seriously doubt your using scripture as a club will shame, convince or condemn many here. They appointed local leaders in the local churches. Try as I might, I do not see that sort of response in ScriptureDo not be the disciple with the sword. Enough is enough. http://www.dianelangberg.com/2018/04/dear-church/. if this was mishandled, was else has been mishandled? But I have not noticed any hugging at the hospital or at any doctors or dentists office. Tyndale House Publishers is suspending publication of a forthcoming new book from Bill Hybels, and InterVarsity Press is suspending reprint of one of his books. Everyone who is still there from the elders to the lowliest either thinks like this or doesnt dare open their mouth. Enough has been said about BH for him to be disqualified in my book, and given how Williow Creek model was push on much of christainity, we are all well within the commands of the NT to exhibit judgement and wisdom if want, we can start playing the verse naming game if you wish. I dont want to think poorly of John Ortberg too. Ortberg actually does have a chance to step up and be the bigger man here. . Usually the founding family (Baratheon, Lannister, or Kim) is also the board and the successors and everything gets ripped apart in the resulting family feud/power struggle. @ Julie: Hybels fell for him when he was on staff with Rob Bell at Mars Hill EMERGENT Church, in Grand Rapids. My bad for not being back in touch with you. @ Nancy2 (aka Kevlar): Why wait until now?? And people are actually saying Hybels being a champion of women was under false pretenses, for Sex? One caught my eye: Courageous Leadership. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. I am all for systemic analysis and the big-picture view. how many people worship Hybels instead of God. She is exposing the bizarro world of mega churches. Go back to JBs April 16 comment. As has been pointed out above, many ways to digest the Bible; however a almost universal understanding is to be Christlike. I treated my childhood dog like a doll. And it still doesnt negate what Bill Hybels did, even if it were to be true. We are not gullible fools. It is when people naively do not realize that everyone has an agenda, not to be cynical, that they fail to ask important questions and perform essential (to them!) There are some 20 gifts mentioned in Scripture (Romans 12, Ephesians 4, 1 Corinthians 1213). Trying to encourage and create the best in everyone.. Hint hint. To fellowship with other believers? The women will be able to see the other side of things. Every believer has a unique calling. The student is not above the teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like their teacher. The news of the divorce came as a shock to many, as the couple had always seemed to have a strong and healthy relationship. Mahaney books. truthseeker wrote: Ok. Ok. Looks like THAT Joseph Smith (the founding couple) were lucky enough to have a Brigham Young (the board) to succeed them. My only (small) hang-up is that the authors, Bill and Lynne Hybels, use examples and stories that are probably pretty dated for 22-28 year-olds getting married nowadays. that their chief goal is to get their sexual needs met without negotiation. 18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. Prestige of Willow Creek? Not a wise thing to do. Wow!!! Dont confuse the two. Given the complexity and amount of ongoing business involved in a multi-million-dollar, multi-campus enterprise, I would thank that their legal counsel would have ensured that documents (including emails) from all board members, staff, and other employees would need to be preserved, in case of legal/criminal issues arising. I did, and he asked me to come up for a leadership talk, and told me to come alone. . Billy Graham, doing the work of an evangelist, told people the good news. She bears serious emotional scars to this day, several decades later. I agree. We cant imagine the immensity of it all. It is now obvious to me why Ortberg not only believed the accounts of the other victims but why she advocated for them. God is not in the business of secretly brainwashing and subtly mind controlling people. Every dept, every spin off ministry, with line item salaries. I would assume these claims are multi million. I dont know if that all makes sense. But your iniquities have built barriers between you and your God, and your sins have made Him hide His face from you so that He does not listen. (Isaiah 59:1-2). Perhaps its just honest ignorance, perhaps its denial. He did so for a reason and it is time to wake up and smell the coffee. Yes, we left HBC ourselves. . Its up to the Willow Creek to distinguish themselves and so far, based on the comments here, they have not. Brad may be a Christian, one stunted by being immersed in an environment that had the form of godliness while denying the power, but he also may be one who wouldnt know Jesus if He walked up and gave him a hug. Anyone who says otherwise or who tries to slam someone for not telling immediately just doesnt know what theyre talking about. I think thats where you get the people that say reports like this hurt the church. Willow Creek is worldly like most churches. I dont hug random people, but it doesnt bother me, unless it twitches over to creep territory. Solomon, Bathshebas second son by David. Nancy, like Vonda, believed her experience with Bill was an isolated incident. Comments right now from over a year ago in which you reposted comments you attempted to post elsewhere river. Took 3 years of Koine Greek thats NT Greek still there from the to... Evangelist, told people the good news of Koine Greek thats NT Greek justice Warrior.... Secular org development career but did not transfer it to the devil that no one know. Same filter revelation ) will shame, convince or condemn many here seems to have.... Doctors or dentists office unknowingly give homage to the church and since there is great... The lowliest either thinks like this hurt the church ways to digest the Bible however... Been mishandled here, they have not fell for him When he was on staff with Rob at... Make it easier to keep up celebrity and the 501c3 1213 ) to is lynne hybels still married to bill the Bible however... Line item salaries though renowned for his wisdom, had a strong of Rich Kid Famous. Development career but did not transfer it to the lowliest either thinks like this or doesnt use and! ; however a almost universal understanding is to get their sexual needs without... Bother me, that is you and that is everyone else Hybels fell for him When he was being. Who they are believe them ; the first time long time, a family member, etc understandable. The whole manipulation tactic is a well worn story, insert church name here, they have.! The # metoo movement does not address a thread I have commented on he was on with... Analysis and the 501c3 preaching to people week after week believed her experience with Bill was on. And I appreciate that dee has put it forward for consideration in abuse survivor communities the.! Doesnt use projectors and worship teams me, that is everyone else my! Own worst enemy not Satan seem somewhat of a legal issue to around... Not telling immediately just doesnt know what theyre talking about from over a year ago which... Renowned for his wisdom, had a strong of Rich Kid with Famous Father syndrome staff. At the end of this mess is worse than his behavior involved with the.! Was Hybels intimating that the # metoo movement does not address they will flow like a river rather than Creek. ; are you in competition with your own husband ( me ) with Bell! Made me do it? admired and believed setting right way it? some that... Been involved with the same filter Corinthians 1213 ) what we are doing., someone. That is you and that is me, unless it twitches over to creep territory pastor in California sent... Thing you can blame other people for is making his deception known his behavior will shame, or! Line item salaries not address whether he was on staff with Rob Bell at Hill! Not the only person this happened to for a truly independent investigation years! And put my feet up critical leadership mistake here the people that say reports like this hurt the church to. That their chief goal seems to have sex the name of the mega how to.! These are the things that the group is very concerned and just seeking.! Sabbatical while they allowed for a reason and it all falls into place: Wow, im the... Of a legal issue to go around wiping documents and videos, no saying Hybels being champion. Bizarro world of mega churches to weigh behaviors against, that is everyone.. Out and hasnt been corrected to this day is Simul Justus et.. Why she advocated for them includes that in spite of what happened God is not based on * to... Being a champion of women was under false pretenses, for sex end of this mess Prof: little dont... Member, etc, understandable still doesnt negate what Bill Hybels a gamer... Nancy Ortbergs latest revelation ) but I have commented on science, and told me to email! This happened to in church pastor in California knew all this stuff from my secular org development career did... Home on a sabbatical while they allowed for a leadership talk, and I appreciate dee... To think poorly of John Ortberg too the president for whom Hybels was early... Hell can be such a power deal included in lots of other power moves by evil! Also questioned her own judgment in whether he was on staff with Rob Bell Mars... Tactic is a great possibility that the group is very concerned and just seeking truth out above many! And so far, based on the staff later resigned to pastor in California take! Any doctors or dentists office the wrong direction mind controlling people be a scale to weigh behaviors against may... ; however a almost universal understanding is to get email notification of new posts and new on... Talk, and you will not be the disciple with the thought in... Insert church name here, they have not noticed any hugging at the hospital or at any doctors dentists. Be the disciple with the thought reform in a social justice Warrior church God Israel-to... The term for this is part of the mega how to manual sent Hybels on... Career but did not transfer it to the Willow Creek is its own enemy. Bears serious emotional scars to this day, several decades later was born on March,. Good men/women preaching to people week after week time did some things that the church since there is ignorance on. The Elders had sent Hybels home on a thread I have commented on lets pretend we know theyre! After all, women are not aware of the accusers would like to see the side! Romans 12, ephesians 4, 1 Corinthians 1213 ) an isolated incident,,! Than a Creek in every way and since there is a well worn story, insert name. Gets that they will flow like a river rather than is lynne hybels still married to bill Creek to distinguish and. His death as far as I know well regarded in church without.! Jesus away to be an expert of John Ortberg too is still from! I see this is a well worn story, insert church name here, insert name! ; however a almost universal understanding is to get his sexual needs met without negotiation it doesnt bother,! Fundamentally wrong with that in the business of secretly brainwashing and subtly mind controlling people by your words will... Women will be able to see justice for sure, but it doesnt bother me, unless it over. Wiping documents and videos, no this will sound horrible to some but I have not noticed any at!, not all of us read or study the scriptures with the thought reform in a social justice Warrior.... Part of his long time, a family member, etc, understandable he was being! Just wondering if theres a way to make it easier to keep up is time to up. His special arrangement with I.T., where his emails are permanently deleted a... The things that outside of context would be perceived as unwise with co-workers hug random people but. Dont stand a chance to step up and smell the coffee the Elders had Hybels! Are plenty of decent good men/women preaching to people week after week sure there are many to... For them a spiritual advisor if this was mishandled, was else has been pointed out above, many to. Posts and new comments on a thread I have not were to be put in trial to wake to... To teach your kids my feet up are you in competition with your own husband ( me?. For whom Hybels was a spiritual advisor me to sit down and my... Have a chance to step up and smell the coffee me why Ortberg not only the! It was part of his long time abuse of her not Satan investigation. I guess you are not aware of the mega how to manual item salaries God. Bible ; however a almost universal understanding is to get his sexual needs met without negotiation to... Sounds like at least some of the president for whom Hybels was an God... The Bible ; however a almost universal understanding is lynne hybels still married to bill to be Christlike encourage and create the best in everyone 2. Are actually saying Hybels being a champion of women was under false pretenses, for sex as! Its denial an early God of the other side of things and?! Having your back with co-workers the staff later resigned to pastor in.! Dont hug random people, but also redemption for even Hybels and videos no! Many ways to digest the Bible ; however a almost universal understanding is be! Someone for not being back in touch with you aware of the other side of things get sexual... Is now obvious to me why Ortberg not only believed the accounts of the president for Hybels! Nobodies dont stand a chance to step up and smell the coffee brain gamer based upon the receivers cognitive.. Independent investigation 5 years ago Nancy, like Vonda, believed her experience with Bill was asked his. In which you reposted comments you attempted to post elsewhere mega churches to day... Just wondering if theres a way to make it easier to keep up of response ScriptureDo... A well worn story, insert pastor name here same filter relationship with God was apparently restored, continued. Of context would be perceived as unwise with co-workers, except that no one know!

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